work?

[gardeniabee]

A conversation I had with jrigg got me thinking about this.

By the definitions of several people I have spoken with (friends, family, etc.), I have never "worked" a day in my life. I have never had a food service/labor intensive/menial job that pays minimum wage (or close to that). Many people seem to place great value in these positions for the life lessons they teach you, and take a condescending tone when saying I have never "worked a real job." There seems to be a moral superiority if not a financial one that comes from having worked a blue-collar type job for many (by no means all! that is not my claim and I don't intend to offend anyone, I'm just analyzing some various perspectives).

To frame my point of view- I have worked in political campaigns and laboratory settings exclusively. I haven't been paid a terrible amount for these positions, but it was above minimum wage and was generally intellectually stimulating work. I entered college at 16 and haven't paid any of my own money for it- I applied for many scholarships before college that have supported me relatively well. I have never left school and have maintained a high GPA while taking a sometimes strenuous, sometimes not so strenuous course load. I have no idea how well I will be able to find a job after graduating this semester, but even if I cannot, I am in a good position to enter grad school and can do that (and plan on it, after a year or so of "experience").

It often seems that I am at a moral disadvantage when I discuss "work" with people who have "worked real jobs." But when I consider the amount of investment I have put into (to put it simply) taking care of myself, and making sure I am in a good position to attain a comfortable lifestyle, it almost seems to me like I should be able to claim the "moral superiority." If not that, then at least claim that my point of view on work is valid, because I have "worked hard" at trying to have an easier life than a grind-type job. My overarching goal in all my work has been to NOT have to work at a menial grind, and I think that's a valid life objective.

However, it seems that if I try to claim the moral position, I just come off as a snobby bitch who thinks she's better than everyone else. Also, not claiming the moral position seems almost condescending... in a different way. By not actively stating that I think I have done better for myself, I'm effectively patting someone on the head and saying "oh, you're right, you're such a good worker!" or some such nonsense.

Any thoughts? I'm not really trying to pick a fight, was just meandering through my mind out loud.

Comments

[jrigg.livejournal.com]

I think part of it is choice. You work when you chose to, so you're free to work on things you find enjoyable or stimulating or profitable. Most people can't, they work because they have to. They may have choice over where they work, but even then it's a limited choice. Most people have to run just to keep up.

[gardeniabee]

So, are you saying that having no choice puts one in a morally superior position to talk about working? Or something else?

[jrigg.livejournal.com]

More that it's an experience you haven't been through. For an example between you and I, let's reverse it. Both our parents got divorced, however for you it was while you were younger so it had a direct impact on your life while mine got divorced long after I left home so it's impact was minor.

[artificialpuppy.livejournal.com]

Why would a ditch digger know about chelating agents? So if you need an opinion on chelating agents you should consider someone with a more, formal background in geology or biochemistry.

That does not completely invalidate the point of view of a ditch digger, this is a subject that usually comes up in a context of point of view and more specifically, political or social opinions that are relevant, to people who have been ditch diggers.

There is a tremendous gap between the masses and those who would presume to speak for them. There are relevant observations about life that can be kept from a person who is sequestered, that does not deal with average people, that does not understand how average people behave or how average people are treated. To some extent there may be sympathies that come with this understand, but there are also disgusts and a healthy pessimism regarding the natures of people, their inherent strengths, flaws, just how much of their life is dumb luck and just how much, human intent seems to drive karma.

There are no morally superior positions because morality is relative, there are just people with with varying degrees of specialization, sometimes trying to adapt one of area of expertise, to another with varying degrees of success.

[gardeniabee]

I use the term moral to illustrate what I view to be the tone of voice of people discussing work, since work seems to have many "moral" overtones in the US. I don't really believe in absolute morality, it was just a good descriptor. Thanks for your input.

[artificialpuppy.livejournal.com]

The First Rule of Social Realism (http://www.artcyclopedia.com/history/social-realism.html): Glorify the Proletariat's Struggle Toward Social Progress (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F-nt7aC_JQ).

[tonberrygrrl.livejournal.com]

Although i have worked food service - and probably too much of it at that - i've still found myself in your position more than a few times. My dad would constantly accuse me of never doing any character-building work, especially when i was attending Tech. And he'd take this condescending, morally superior tone when he'd tell me that he'd "put me to work" (under him, at his construction sites).

He claims that he did that because he wanted to make sure that i succeeded in college and didn't end up doing what he did for a living: that he wanted to motivate me to do well... but in all honesty i'm not sure why he did. Did he feel that i had it easier than him and that it was unfair...? Did he feel that having me do work i was obviously not built for would "build character"? Or did he just want nearly cost free workers for his remodeling contracts?

At any rate, he and i have many deep issues with each other, and i am not interested in empathizing with him at the moment.

In my case, though, i have worked menial jobs. Food service jobs. Minimum wage jobs. And i'm not sure if i gained anything from it or not. Honestly, i'm happy for you if you've been able to avoid it!

[gardeniabee]

Thanks for sharing your ideas on this! I can totally relate- when my dad was alive, he would often talk about my need to "build character" through menial tasks so I could appreciate what I have. It's interesting to hear you say you're not sure if you gained anything or not.

[tonberrygrrl.livejournal.com]

Well okay, i can understand your dad's philosophy on an intellectual level: How can you have something good unless you have something bad to compare it to? If you feel that you are working some awful, dead-end job, is it because you can compare it to your past experience, or because you're not satisfied with anything? So yes, on an intellectual level, i totally get it.

In real life i don't. When i worked as a cashier for Burger King, i hated every minute of it because i knew i could do better than that. And while it did motivate me to do better in school and appreciate how much nicer a student job was, i only felt that push for a semester at most, and after that i was back to seeing how much i could goof off and get away with it again! I really feel that the most i've gained from my 3+ years fast food experience is my genuine sympathy for anyone stuck doing it themselves.

*sigh*

I haven't the first clue as to what i'd do in your precarious situation. I mean if someone claims some kind of "high ground" because they've endured their trial by fire and you obviously have not, what are you supposed to say to that? "Thank you drive thru?" =)

Bah

[professorwc.livejournal.com]

I worked my way through high school as a grunt worker at a grocery store, starting at minimum wage and working my way up. I won't go into details, but the job was tough and took up a lot of my time and energy. Yeah, sure these kinds of experiences build character, but does this make me better than someone who has never had to work such a job? I don't think so, and if someone can go their whole lives without working a boring, menial job...more power to them.

Do I have a clue?

[mystarfalling.livejournal.com]

Does the anger and "moral superiority" cover a jealousy thing? Maybe the idea that someone got better paid for exercising a different set of muscle matter is a thing to piss off those that didn't think of it first. (= I also like the idea that something I say will piss off and annoy the crap out of someone so much that they will sputter in indignation and type badly in response to this. *mental gymnastics* I can't add any more right now without really chewing on my ankle.

Re: Do I have a clue?

[gardeniabee]

Heck, maybe. It isn't exactly a politically correct idea, but non-PC doesn't equal non-true.